Hymer Scandal | How It Affects Owners | What to Expect

Hymer Scandal | How It Affects Owners | What to Expect

One of the largest RV manufacturers in North
America went into receivership earlier this month. What does that mean for current and would-be
owners? We’re going to cover all that and more starting
right now! Hi everyone, Neil Balthaser here and welcome
to Ultramobility the channel where you vote for the RVs that you want me to review. This week we’re not reviewing an RV rather
the situation that one of the largest RV manufacturers here in North America finds itself in and
that is insolvency. If you haven’t yet heard, Erwin Hymer Group
of North America shuttered its plants, laid off all its employees and filed for receivership
in Ontario Canada on February 15th, 2019. Just a few days ago. Let’s give a little background on Erwin Hymer
and how we got to where we are and then talk about what it all means to current and would-be
owners. It all started off like a fairy tale: Erwin
Hymer Group out of Germany is a highly respected and one of the largest RV manufacturer in
Europe. In 2016 they wanted to expand into the very
lucrative North American market and the fastest way to do that was to buy up one of the best
known brands here in North America – Roadtrek – which they did and in doing so created a
new North American company called Erwin Hymer Group North America. Erwin Hymer Group North America managed the
Roadtrek brand along with 3 new brands : Hymer, Carado RV and Sunlight to pretty quickly become
very nearly if not entirely the #1 class b manufacturer here in North America rivaling
Winnebago Industries to command over 30% market share. The combined lineup of class b camper vans
encompassed 17 different models! All was going hunky dory until Erwin Hymer
announced in the fall of 2018 that they would be selling themselves to Thor Industries to
create the world’s largest RV manufacturer. It didn’t take long for auditors to find “financial
irregularities” with the North American unit and in order to protect the Thor acquisition
and not taint it with any potential scandal the parent company quickly decided to shut
down the entire North American operations and that’s what they did on February 15th
2019 – they shut everything down and put the company into receivership. If you’re interested in the public details
about the current status of the receivership, I’ll put a link to the company who is handling
it and you can read like I have all the interesting tidbits contained in official court documents. There is something interesting buried in those
documents: It appears that Erwin Hymer was in the process of trying to find a buyer for
their North American unit prior to the surfacing of the news of “financial irregularities”. This means that significant work was already
in place and prospective buyers were already approached. The current company that owns all the assets
including factory leases, inventory and the Roadtrek brand is on an accelerated 6 week
timeline to try and conclude the sale of some or all of the assets. This could mean that a buyer is secured that
will continue the manufacture of at least the Roadtrek products. We’ll know more in 6 weeks. If a buyer cannot be found in 6 weeks then
it is likely that the company will be liquidated. The Roadtrek brand name is a somewhat valuable
asset and could be acquired by someone but that would be in name only. Current owners would not get their warranties
transferred over to whomever may acquired the Roadtrek brand. The Carado and Hymer brands were being leased
to the North American unit are now owned by Thor and their licenses with Erwin Hymer Group
of North America have been terminated – that means it is highly unlikely that we’re ever
going to see a continuation of the Aktiv, Axion and Banff products at least coming out
of any possible buyer. My opinion is that liquidation is the most
likely scenario. So what’s this all mean to current or prospective
owners? Warranty and repair is the biggest headache
and concern. I’m hearing that the company is not honoring
warranty repair for its products that’s not surprising since the company has liabilities
totalling over $300m. So if you currently own or are planning on
taking advantage of some great deals on discounted Hymer products you’ll need to consider an
extended warranty. Now it’s more than I can cover in this video
but extended warranties, like home warranties vary a lot and will require you to read the
fine print to ensure that you’re getting what you think you’re getting. Here’s some language from two different extended
warranties. In one you can see that it covers plumbing
fixtures and valves but is conveniently missing pipes and water lines – an important exclusion. In this extended warranty is covers water
lines but has conveniently listed “furniture” as a broad term of something that is not covered. By furniture do they mean cabinets as well
as sofas and ottomans? You would need to find out. Extended warranties can range in price anywhere
from $2k up to $7k depending on their terms and what exactly they cover and don’t cover. So Cavet Emptor. Alright let’s assume you’ve purchased a good
extended warranty. Now, it’s time to break down the RV into the
parts and pieces that are likely to be covered by your extended warranty; things which are
covered by their own warranties and finally things which may be covered by your extended
warranty but may not be able to be easily repaired or replaced. Let’s start with things that are covered by
their own warranties. The biggest one is your chassis, weather Mercedes,
Ram or Chevy all come with their own warranties and with the exception of Mercedes-based models
owners should feel pretty confident that their engines and van bodies are covered. Mercedes owners I’ll speak to your situation
in a moment. Most of the appliances and some components
are also going to be covered by their own warranties. Things like your refrigerator, stove, microwave,
generator, water heater, heater, air conditioner, water pump, awning, toilet, TV antenna, smoke
and CO detectors, TV and DVD/Blu-ray players, blinds, rooftop fans and electric steps are
all likely covered by their own warranties. Great. Then there are a bunch of things which are
not likely to be covered under their own warranties but hopefully are covered by your extended
warranty and are easily replaced with off-the-shelf components. These are things like LED lights and light
switches, your thermostat, water lines and valves, most tank sensors and even the monitor
panel, electrical wiring (as long as it’s not multiplex), electrical outlets, USB and
DC charging ports, hinges, door stays, latches, locks, faucets, drawer glides and even your
flooring and coach windows can pretty easily be replaced or repaired. So that’s good news. Now we come to the stuff that may be more
difficult or impossible to replace or repair. These are generally things which were custom
built by Roadtrek, Hymer, Carado and Sunlight and cannot be found off-the-shelf. Things like cabinets and doors, counter tops,
table tops, cushions, ottomans, mattresses – these are all custom fit for a particular
floorplan design. On this CS Adventurous you can see that the
front table is custom made – same with the SS Agile. Interior trim pieces as well like your walls
and ceiling panels and all the little pieces that close up gaps so that you’re not looking
at the naked, aluminum walls of the vans are also custom. On most the Roadtrek models the shower stall
is a custom fitted fiberglass enclosure but not all shower stalls are custom. The Aktiv doesn’t have a one-piece fiberglass
shower stall but all its cabinetry is custom. Also in most cases, the exterior holding tanks
are custom extruded to maximize capacity. And on most Roadtrek models there are custom
exterior trim pieces like the lower panels here on the driver and passenger sides of
Sprinter-based models. On the widebody 210 Popular the entire rear
shell is custom molded to give you extra interior room. In all these cases, if you need to replace
any of these pieces you’re going to have problems since they are no longer manufactured. You’re going to need to look for them on Ebay
or see if you can find your model at a junk yard and buy the parts and pieces that you
need. Or maybe join an online community of owners
and pool resources and knowledge. The bottom line is that you’re going to have
to figure it out on your own. The electrical system and in particular EcoTrek
is also a proprietary system and some components will be difficult or impossible to find. Things like Eco-Trek’s customized lithium
batteries and its battery management system are no longer being manufactured or supported. If you have problems with those parts you’re
going to have to join an online forum like ClassBForums and see if you can get support. My recommendation is to just continue using
your EcoTrek system until it starts to fail, then consider replacing the batteries and
BMS with a trusted 3rd party system from Volta or Xantrex. Some components in your electrical system
are more easily replaced. The second alternator is likely made by Ballmer
or Nations, the inverter can be replaced off-the-shelf as can the converter. The solar panels are also replaceable. So a lot of the EcoTrek system is not proprietary
which is good news. My biggest concern is for owners of Mercedes
Sprinter products – those are the SS Agile, CS and RS Adventurous and the Etrek. For those products, my understanding is that
for several years beginning in 2017 Roadtrek was not a certified Mercedes MasterUpfitter. That means that Roadtrek was making modifications
to the Sprinter which Mercedes did not authorize and subsequently does not need to cover under
their chassis warranty. Now we don’t know exactly what those modifications
were but they are likely related to Roadtrek’s installation of Voltstart, their remote engine
start system. Because Mercedes may not have authorized Voltstart
we don’t know – it is possible that they could decline warranty work involving you chassis
electrical system. But again we don’t know why Roadtrek’s MasterUpfitter’s
certification was revoked and that’s the real problem. When Roadtrek was in business it wasn’t a
problem because their own warranty would cover any warranty work that Mercedes refused to
cover – and that was great and reassuring. But now that they’re out of business that
guaranty is no longer valid and you the owners are left holding the bag and for that I’m
sorry. So the lesson here is: If you’re buying a
Sprinter from a manufacturer always go to Mercedes MasterUpfitter’s webiste and check
that your manufacturer is listed. If they are not – be aware that Mercedes can
decline any warranty work as a result of unapproved modifications made to their products. I understand this is of no consolation to
current owners of Sprinter-based products from Roadtrek but it is of great consequence
for anyone thinking of purchasing a Sprinter-based product from Roadtrek at a steep discount
today. Alright that wraps up this week’s episode. If you enjoyed it then give me a thumbs up,
subscribe and hit that little bell to be notified whenever a new review drops on my channel
and thanks for watching Ultramobility where you vote for the RV that you want me to review. I’ll see you next time everyone! Take care! Bye!

100 thoughts on “Hymer Scandal | How It Affects Owners | What to Expect

  1. A 1-time donation via PayPal is always appreciated! www.paypal.me/ultramobility
    Or a small monthly subscription goes a long way! www.patreon.com/ultramobility

    Check out the court documents for EHGNA's receivership https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/ehgna#intro

  2. HI , I NOTICED IN YOUR VIDEO THAT YOUR STOCKADE WOODEN FENCE ( UPPER LEFT SIDE OF SCREEN ) IS SHOWING ADVANCED STAGES OF DRY ROT. THE SLOTS ARE PRODUCING IRREGULAR GAPS AND BENDS WHICH IS A Solid indication that the fence has reached the end of its life cycle. Failure to replace the stockade fence could result in property and/or human injury or worse. Please notify the property owner so this situation can be properly corrected.

  3. I don't own an RV but I found this video very informative. You have a good presentation supported with information and good graphics. Very impressive.

  4. Hi Neil, I have been following the reports since the news broke back in January. Time is rapidly running out to find a new buyer and very unlikely they will for a couple of reasons such as …

    The $300 million liability is huge. Once Thor found out about the financials, they declined the purchase. The factories, being leased, not owned, are not assets. All the employees are gone … a significant asset to say the least. Doesn't look good for a potential buyer.

    The Hymer family wanted out of the RV business, and I believe they are simply going through the motions of Receivership, in order to declare bankruptcy and then it truly is game over for them, without having to be concerned about lawsuits.

    The former owner, J. Hannemayer has stated he has been in contact with companies interested in buying RoadTrek … but expressing interest and actually buying are not the same. His only connection to this mess is HE owns the original factory and is owed $$$ from the EHGNA and would be one of the creditors looking to get his money back. If a company was truly interested, they would be contacting the current company that owns EHGNA, not the former owner.

    There's been some fake news about this such as:

    from the potential "embezzlement" to Jim Hammill being walked out the door by Security (he was at home that day), to even all the news reports stating "financial irregularities" which, are actually "reporting irregularities." A subtle difference which can indicate the fake VINs but not any $$$ involved with those fake VINs.

    And, in all of this, no charges filed, no lawsuits from the Hymer family against the former Execs at RoadTrek. Makes me wonder!

    It's clear EHGNA was in financial difficulties for a long time to rack up the kind of debt it has.

  5. I would sooner never own an RV than own ANYTHING owned by Thor! I will stick with Tiffin. 100% family owned.

  6. It’s a shame for some owners especially newer ones that could be left high and dry but there is an opportunity for a good handyman to pick up a nice rig and a great price. Cheers!!!

  7. Hey Neil, what do you think will happen to the inventory at the manufacturer? Any way to get our hands on one?

  8. Yes you did and believe me I was not surprised at their reaction. Based on what I’d seen from two other vloggers who did take the sponsership one downsized from class a gassers and spent the next three months denegrading their former choice and are now searching for a new rvand only now mentioned that they didn’t own the class B

  9. I’ve dealt extensively with several extended warranty companies and I say that Wholesale Warranties are the best and easiest to deal with from both sides of the service counter.

  10. I'm not an owner of the mentioned products but, I think this is one of the most important and valuable videos you have ever done.

  11. So to summarize if you just bought a roadtrek with your retirement money and were planning on traveling for the next five years in it your basically SCR-WED!

  12. Very valuable information. Thanks.

    I was at the Toronto RV show this Friday specifically looking for a B Vans as a soon to be first time RV traveller crossing N.A. for the next few years. Just tuning into this Roadtrek fiasco. Yikes. The Cambridge plant is not far from my hometown. No wonder the B Van selection at the show was minimal.

  13. That whole situation sucks not only for rv owners but their employees as well. Just when it seemed that the Roadtrek etrek sprinters were going to run the rv game it takes a dump. But we as techs are trying our best to keep them on the road.

  14. I really thank you for this knowledge. We were extremely interested in the Roadtrck Product. Now I am very confused.

  15. We own an Axion, and actually I'm glad we got one while we could, because there's no other true RV out there that's 18 ft. or shorter, and that was a requirement for us. We still have our Ram Promaster warranty, warrantees on all the major components (like the Alde furnace/water heater), and active Facebook owners' groups providing a lot of mutual support. Plus an extended warranty (we'll see how that works out). At the prices dealers have been asking for EHGNA RVs on their lots, they're so much less than competing products they're well worth considering.

  16. I have a question about importing european made campers into the USA. My wife & I spent a year in Europe. We bought a used car and caravan (trailer) and drove around enjoying a different view than from a hotel. I loved all the small, fuel effecient cars and RV's and would love a small Class B European made RV in this country. I would love for you to do a segment on this topic. There are also many Japanese RV's that might sell well here. Thankyou

  17. With all that is going on with Hymer, I would love to get your take on purchasing a new Loft edition. This question is for you and the readers. I have an opportunity to buy a new Hymer Activ Loft for $85K. That is a great price, but is it worth the risk of having limited parts down the road and no warranty ?

  18. Once Hymer goes through bankruptcy its assets could be purchased and some entity could begin manufacturing RVs again under a new brand.

  19. A week ago or so, I tried going to the Roadtrek and Hymer WEB sites. They were down. Now when you go to Roadtrek.com it's like 'business as usual'. There's even a page with about 200 happy plant workers waving at the camera. If I was one of those out of work people, I would we waving my finger rather than my hand. Anyway what's the deal with the hot site? Are the receivers trying to project am image of a viable company?

  20. Roadtrek having a third of the market share in class B RVs I'm curious to watch how this shakes out with supply and demand. Great job Neil you're on top of it!

  21. I don't know any other method to get in touch with you so, I selected your most recent post to ask you to PLEASE do an in-depth review of the Renegade Villagio and Vienna. And, to detail the differences between them. Including PRICING. My wife and I are in the research phase in advance of a purchase and we came across these two so-called Class B Plus RV'S and we are interested your opinion of their quality of materials and construction. Thank you in advance for your informed opinion.

  22. Well so much for a 5 year warranty. "Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product from me."

  23. A disappointment re Hymer & Roadtek are out of business. So like the WATT company with their fuel cell/lpg technology. I hope WATT to take advantage of the U.S. market hopefully soon. There is an alternative company use similar technology called Efoy although a liquid methanol is use to charge the device. https://www.imarineusa.com/efoy151-000-211.aspx?gclid=cjwkcajwvnxebrajeiwajqyhfkzwusketb1yzh4q5tlexi_yxfgrmayt-vzokpj5ihge113lh27grhocr_yqavd_bwe

  24. John Jacob Erwin Hymer Schmidt
    His name is my name, too
    Whenever we go out
    The people always shout
    There goes John Jacob Erwin Hymer Schmidt

    John Jacob Erwin Hymer Schmidt
    His name is my name, too
    Whenever we go out
    The people always shout
    There goes John Jacob Erwin Hymer Schmidt

    Sorry…. I just had to….

  25. The European brands such as Hymer Europe and Adria look way better than domestic, North American products. How can someone import from Europe?

  26. Well now we know why Roadtrek had those great warranty’s, while Winnebago had those stingy/ gr ones. Think the Travato is not perfect, but they come from a company that will be around. Just met some one at rest stop in NY driving a 1995 Rialta

  27. I’m a 2018 Aktiv owner, thank you for putting this out, it’s the most informative video I’ve seen on the subject. After living in it full time for 9 months over the last year, I can say it’s still a great RV with an excellent build quality. I’m disappointed in the shenanigans at corporate and the fallout the employees and my fellow buyers are dealing with, but I’m still very happy with my purchase. Hopefully the panic will settle soon and people will realize, you’re not any worse off than you’d be with any other RV whose warranty has expired.

  28. Great video. Thanks for sharing.

    After seeing a few Class Bs built by Hymer North America I was stunned and could not believe a German manufacturer allowed their name to be applied to such low quality workmanship.


  29. The coming months will reveal the tangled web of liquidation problems. Unsold units on dealers lots likely have some manufacturer’s financial strings attached. Meaning … the liquidation will include those units. The financially strong dealers may purchase those units (at a bargain price), while others will just let them be returned to the factory lot for auction. Banks who backed the manufacturer may end up “owning” some of the assets.

  30. Thank you for this… Already became an issue for me, lithium battery was faulty, cost me 1200 to replace it less than a months after I purchased the axion 😥

  31. Great assessment of the Hymer NA situation. My condolences to those laid off and to the owners who have to deal with the lack of warranty.

  32. Neil,,not sure when I discovered you, but I file yours in aYTfile , what I like is your unbiased vids, there are a few RV types also, The Russo’s, owned a class A, towing a Jeep, sold it then got into an AKTIV 2.0, what I liked was the bed could be in place 7/24, as you know that was a PROMASTER fwd petrol engine, auto trans., this is where I first found out about HYMER, so they had to return it,, they would never do this again, they are looking to FORD TRANSIT, don’t know which one as yet.Imagine going to MAUI HI, renting an AKTIV 1.0, also saw some VW WESTFALIAs, but never knew they made petrol engines. I have seen some really NICE units in EUROPE, but they ALL are diesel, and NOT clean diesels + their electric systems are250volt +12volt, Some the stoves & heat operate off the diesel fuel tank. I guess sales would be iffy if brought here even with petrol engines. Not sure if I would even have a go at it am 77now, plus been over 1.35million Miles, so really slowed down being retired.
    From Maplewood NJ. Cheers. God Bless !

  33. Always liked Hymer. That's devastating for those workers in Cambridge Ontario. No way I can afford 100,000$ for a nice hotel on wheels. The one I like was the simple design of the Carado Banff. Guess if I win the lotto , I will defenetely not purchase one of them. Again, my heart goes out to the workers and the families.

  34. There is no larger tribe of shysters and villains on the planet than RV manufacturers and salesmen. They make a garbage product not fit for purpose, then look you right in the eye and lie to you.
    The few exceptions you might find only prove the rule.
    It's easy to build a strong, durable RV at a reasonable price but the fact that 95% of people in the industry choose to build and sell crap tells you all you need to know.

  35. Neil, buddy. I like your reviews. But can you please stop opening videos with “Hey guys” and then welcoming viewers to the exact title they already know they clicked on? The entire exposé is time consuming, dated, and more annoying than helpful. I say this with love. It only blends you in with more amateur content rather than stand out without getting in the way. I work in media, so this is meant to be helpful. Keep growing!

  36. Bummer~ A review of the Storyteller Overland Mode 4×4 would be great! Features two 3-point harnesses for families with children!

  37. ALL American companies go bust, they try to expand too quickly and the owners want a massive profits in a short time – a fast buck!. It's a shame Hymer ever got mixed up in America. A German made Hymer is very different animal from American made crap.

  38. Thank you for this info; I just purchased a 2018 Aktiv, 2 weeks before they went belly up.
    Can you tell me about the serpentine belt? Is this a Dodge part or a Nation's (alternator) part?

  39. thanks for the info. I was looking into Hymer 2.0 Loft because that thing could possibly fit 5 or 6 in a 21 ft package. . bummer.. Anything else out there in the market that will fit that many passengers?

  40. I find it amazing that Hymer could go under in such a hot market. Financial irregularities indeed!! And a healthy dose of stupid. Thank you for a very comprehensive overview of this event, and your breakdown of warranty issues. That was logical and hopefully appreciated by the owners left holding the bag.

  41. Considering a purchase of a Zion. Without this warranty what are your thoughts on pushing hard for deep discount from dealer? They seem just as stuck.

  42. I was seriously looking at the Simplicuty SRT, but not anymore. I guess I'll buy a stock cargo van, and have it customized. 😕

  43. I feel sorry for the employees,multi billion dollar buy out guaranteed work,next step unemployed,those with mortgages and loans,things look bleak jobs in that area will be hard to find

  44. Good video. I would never buy another Merc. My opinion is they are overpriced, underserviced piles of junk. I've owned 3 E class, one S and one Sprinter – they all had problems not common to American made products. As far as warranty's go? If you have a chassis warranty and the warranties for all the "components" – that's the 80/20 rule. Any additional coverage is just expensive risk mitigation for things that likely won't happen. Save your money for repairs, IF needed. Cheers.

  45. It has been a while since I've been on youtube and WOW.  Lots of good people bought Roadtreks and are hurt by this.

    I initially thought the German takeover would be good for the companies and buyers but I quickly soured on them since it was apparent they were here just to milk the market. Thanks to this report I finally know why the price of a Crossfit has skyrocketed in the past few months. PS – weren't Roadtrek warranties always by a 3rd party? I remember reading that complaining owners were quite rudely handled by the company and told to contact the warranty company.

  46. Thank you Neil for such a succinct and informative video so those of us who are new to all this can make better decisions. Nice to (luckily) stumble upon someone like you who teaches us to look deeper into the rv world before diving!Or should I say before driving…

  47. A local dealer, "Camping World", is advertising that Roadtrek is making new Zions + that new Zions come with factory warranty + third party warranty is available for old zions.

    Question: should I trust the dealer?

  48. Recent news: https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/european-rv-maker-signs-letter-of-intent-to-buy-roadtrek-1.4381905

  49. Were any vehicles financed through Hymer? If so all debt to a non existent company should be null and void

  50. Holy smoke!! Thank you for your wisdom, discernment and attention to this acquisition. I would have approached dealer thinking I was getting a deal on a discounted van but now I know I have the upper hand.

  51. Did Roadtrek successfully sell its brand during the 90 day period you mentioned here? You said in February that it would be known in about 6 weeks from then but I didn’t hear if you doubled back and reported on this as I was out of the country from March until May 15th. Any update on this? I still love their brand and especially loved the Activ 1 and 2.0. I see dealers selling 2019 models and was just wondering if the dealers are just offering their warranties and not the brand owner. Please advise. Thanks.

  52. Honestly, I was suspicious of any company (not Hymer) producing a real Hymer quality coach. Just didn't sound kosher. Now, what I'd like to find is someone who imports the real Hymer with standards compatible with US regulations. The import duty on vehicles is about 2 percent so that extra $4000 is just a blip on the radar. They already make the left hand drive units and the Mercedes Sprinter is not uncommon in N. America (the Fiat chassis is a notorious loser so those models can stay out). So why isn't anybody importing them? In 2017, the Erwin Hymer group VS United States was a losing dispute with Customs over duty regarding importation on 142 vehicles from Canada. Really a rookie operation.

  53. So this is interesting, apparently, Roadtrek installed seats that have not been pull tested for US market in approx 1900 units?
    Also with the Rapido Group of France to potentially purchase Roadtrek from Erwin Hymer Group North America and establish a manufacturing facility in Cambridge, maybe we will see more European model conversions in the future. Could this eventually be a comeback for WESTFALIA on the US market, which was acquired by Rapido Group in 2010? Would be nice…. https://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-story/9436972-buyer-of-roadtrek-brand-will-set-up-shop-on-tyler-street-in-cambridge/

  54. This is Good article about everything that happened to Roadtrack / Hymer and it looks promising that WESTFALIA under Rapino Group might be able to make a strong comeback on the US market…https://www.therecord.com/news-story/9491493-the-rise-and-fall-of-erwin-hymer-group-north-america/

  55. https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/rapido-sas-completes-the-purchase-of-the-roadtrek-rv-brand-886496857.html
    Concerning the recall of existing CS Adventurous and RS Adventurous with 2nd row seating safety recall: did anyone find out if the new owner Rapido will actually step in and handle the recalls? And how?

  56. Yep, working at an auction that's selling off all this stuff now at Erwin Hymer.
    Rapido Group bought the Roadtrek brand though. I feel bad for all people that were negative impacted by this financial misappropriation.

  57. Just contacted RoadTrek service. All third set recall customers appear to have a voided Rapido offered 2 year, $1500 warranty? Sounds like a legal manipulation to limit warranties. Very weak and what else will they come up with

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